Tuesday, 26 November 2013

Peter Capaldi – The Fourteenth Doctor?

The Scottish accent ran out clear towards the end of The Day Of The Doctor. “No sir! All thirteen!” as eyebrows narrowed.

But, according to the Daily Mirror, that was Fourteen.


They quote Doctor Who showrunner Steven Moffat confirming what Bleeding Cool ran earlier, that Matt Smith is not the Eleventh, nor the Twelfth but the final Thirteenth incarnation of the Time Lord that mostly goes by the name of The Doctor, including the War Doctor and the One-Hearted Rose Doctor. And that Peter Capaldi somehow breaches the natural order of things and becomes the Fourteenth Doctor…
Asked about the Christmas episode and the regeneration of Doctor Who, Moffat confirmed Matt was the 13th Doctor and told the Mirror: “The 12 regenerations limit is a central part of Doctor Who mythology – science fiction is all about rules, you can’t just casually break them. “So if the Doctor can never change again, what’s Peter Capaldi doing in the Christmas special?”

44 comments:

  1. Won't matter how often it's explained, there will always be people that won't get it.

    I'm not one of them, I do get it! :)

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  2. Didn't river gave him all of her regenaration energy (is that what it's called?)

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  3. Makes sense to me - http://tardistopia.net/commentary-fourteen-doctors/

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  4. This is false. Moffat has been quoted many times already since saturday on many other various sources that the numbering does NOT change. and since this "article" contains no quotations whatsoever, I am disinclined to believe it, especially considering that amount of other trusted sources saying the exact opposite.

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    1. Actually Moffat was quoted saying this...his point about the numbering is that as John Hurt didn't call himself the Doctor, and Metacrisis Doctor was a clone of Tennant, they still call themselves the aame numbers (tennant is the tenth, smith the 11th etc) but technically smith isbthe 13th body, simples

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  5. Capaldi says nothing in the special at all.

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  6. But didn't River give Doctor her regenerations?

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  7. Moffat always lies. When talking about future Who, he almost never tells the truth because he doesn't want people knowing what's going to happen. If he's saying now that they're going to stick to the 12 regenerations (total of 13 bodies counting the first one) then it means that he's already decided on how to get around it. The Master was offered a full new set of regenerations by the Time Lord High Council in exchange for helping them contact the Doctor. I'm guessing the next season will be a quest to find Gallifrey. See the connection?

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  8. @Tim Cerchia - What Moffat said was that the Doctor doesn't call himself "The 11th Doctor". The only people who use that numbering are the fans/viewers to keep track of who is who. With the addition of the War Doctor, the Doctor has regenerated at least 11 times (12 if you count David Tennant's half-regeneration in The End of Time), but the "tracking numbering" (for lack of a better term) doesn't change (we don't start calling Eccleston the 10th Doctor).
    So the numbering doesn't change, but the number of regenerations DOES.
    Now, whether the 10th Doctor's half regeneration counts or not, that's not something I've heard him quoted on at all, so the question becomes - is Matt Smith the "final" regeneration or is it Capaldi? Either way, Moffat's going to have to address it in some way, shape or form eventually. Makes sense that he'd want to do it at the time he's re-focusing the show, and especially during its 50th year.

    But, as previously mentioned, the key thing to keep firmly in all our minds is the Whovian Mantra : "Moffat Lies" :)

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  9. @Shane Lockwood - did you also notice that he didn't get a mention in the credits?

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  10. Didnt they say in the recent special, that he seen his grave, the 57th doctor?

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  11. Conveniently, Peter Cushing doesn't get a credit as a doctor. Is this because it would make the number one higher and ruin everything?
    Paul McGann only made one movie but his Doctor is now part of the legend.

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  12. Peter Cushing doesn't count, as tje "Doctor Who and The Daleks" movie was never meant to be part of the series, it was only vaguely based on it.

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  13. Watch classic doctor, tom baker drinks the elixir in the brain of morbius and reference is made to regenerations there as well as in the night of the doctor. Regeneration limit not applicable anymore.

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  14. ^^You may be correct^^

    Incidentally, The Brain of Morbius happened on the same planet #8 crashed on in Night of the Doctor. That was Karn, a Gallifreyan colony.

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  15. I heard no "clear" Scottish accent at the end, Capaldi said nothing... Do you guys actually know what you are talking about?

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    1. Yes he did. "NO sir! All THIRTEEN!"

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  16. Guys,

    if Matt can't regenerate, because he hit the limit, how is it possible that he started regenerating after River shot him? An in Let's Kill Hitler, his regeneration was blocked by the poison. And he used regeneration power to heal River's hand.

    Over and over, Matt can regenerate again.

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  17. At the beginning of episode 10 of "War Games" the Second Doctor clearly states "We can live forever, barring accidents." At the end of the episode, when they are forcing his regeneration, it is established that the High Council of Gallifrey has the technology to control and manipulate the number of regenerations in a Time Lord. The law of 12 regenerations and 13 lives is established with the Fourth Doctor. In "The Five Doctors" it is reaffirmed that the number of regenerations can be technologically controlled when the Council gives The Master more lives for trying to rescue the Doctors. In "The Trial Of A Time Lord" series it is established that the Valeyard Doctor was artificially created between the Doctor's 12th and 13th lives by the CIA to kill the Sixth Doctor. Not unlike the Tenth Doctor clone, the Valeyard Doctor doesn't have the capacity to Regenerate. He is offered the remaining Regenerations of the Doctor if he succeeds as a reward. Consequently, neither the Valeyard Doctor or the Tenth Doctor clone count as Regenerations. The Ninth Doctor sucked the TARDIS energy from Rose before it caused her to burn out. Doctor-Donna was created by her contact with the Tenth Doctor's severed hand. Again, no connection to the actual Doctor and HIS Regenerations. River Song did in fact give her remaining Regenerations to the Eleventh Doctor to save him when his Regeneration cycle was inhibited and failed to kick in. As well, according to canon, aborted Regenerations don't count. With the War Doctor added in, doing the math, there have been 11 proper Regenerations and Smith is the 12th life. When he Regenerates, Capaldi will be the 13th life. The "13 rule" has already been solved many times over through both Classic and Modern canon. At a convention, when Moffatt was questioned how he was going to handle the rule when it comes up, he replied that he found the answer watching DVDs of the Classic series. The Moff lies, but sometimes he tells the truth.

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  18. @ Lee Robertson: Yes, some of us do. Capaldi quite clearly said "No sir, all thirteen" just before they flashed a visual of his eyes. Sorry if your audio is bad.

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  19. The Doctor's life is restored with a fresh draught of Elixir produced by Maren's self-sacrifice to the Sacred Flame. This is from the Brain Of Morbus during the 4th dr so the eight dr was just restored not regenarated. After doing some research this is my thought and River did give 11 her regenerations.
    But here is the thing At the Fall of the 11th The question will be asked? humm makes me think Smith is still the 11th

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  20. @ James the Ogre: You are correct Sir. If that wasn't Capaldi's bushy eyebrows I'll eat my sonic screwdriver.

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  21. Victor do you actually watch the show? The question's been asked... by the Great Intelligence. At the fall of the Doctor... His grave. You're half right about the Elixir. It did restore him to life temporarily, and then it triggered a regeneration. Karn is a Gallifreyan colony, the Sisterhood knows how to manipulate their body. They very distinctly SAID that the elixir would TRIGGER REGENERATION but it didn't have to be random.

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  22. @ John the Ogre That wasn't Capaldi talking, it was the other Timelord, the dark-skinned one. That's what I thought anyway

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  23. That's gonna be one of those things that people will argue forever. Having watched every episode of The Thick of It, I feel I recognize his voice pretty well, and it sure sounded like him to me. But this is one point where I can't point to a fact either way, so it's one that can be argued til we all turn blue. He's not credited in the episode at all that I can find, so some might even argue that those weren't his eyes.

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  24. My son said to me that as John Hurt was the one to regenerate at the end of the Day of the Doctor, that they changed their own history and, therefore, Eccleston, Tennant and Smith never happened, so the next doctor will be number 10 and not 12, 13 or 14. I believe he asked for less conspicious ears this time which is a direct reference to Eccleston. Now I'm not saying my son is right, but why else would John Hurt regenerate?

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  25. If that were true, then how could Matt still be the Doctor in the next episode? Doesn't work out. Besides, although you can't really see it well when it's moving, they did actually paste Eccleston's face over Hurt's during that regen sequence.

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  26. when capaldi appeared on the screen,they saied "no sir,all thirteen !".that means imho,that capaldi is the thirteenth and the tennant-clone does not count.

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  27. @Anonymous:

    Your facts are spot on, but according to a BBC source (http://www.kasterborous.com/2013/11/moffat-doctor-used-regenerations/) the Tennant Doctor's regeneration in Journey's end does count. I rewatched the episode and he even says he redirected the energy the way he did so that he wouldn't change. The energy was used but the body didn't change and the siphoned off energy was used to create the meta-crisis Doctor. Thus the Capaldi Doctor will be the 13th regeneration and, in another link I don't have at the moment, Moffat says it will be explained in the Christmas special. Maybe the explanation is the extra River Song regenerations. Maybe it's something else. Either way the meta-crisis regeneration did count.

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  28. No quotes in this article. Moffat has gone on record before and after the special saying Matt is the 11th Doctor. Come on, guys. Seriously? You think he would really do something that drastic? And do you really for a second believe that Tennant's hand is a full regeneration? By that logic, let's call the Meta-Crisis Doctor a regeneration, which would put Matt as the 14th Doctor, already breaking the rules. And the fact that Hartnell wash't the first regeneration (do the research). We really have no idea what number we're on, but no rules are being broken. Guess that's what happens when you put faith in an article run by The Daily Mirror.

    And another thing. Capaldi had no lines in the Special. We didn't hear his natural Scottish accent because HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING. It was one of the Time Lord Council members who said 'No, sir. All thirteen!'

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  29. He would actually be like Number "20" but the first 8 we don't see.

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  30. "Science fiction is all about rules, you can't just casually break them."
    Really, Mr. Moffat? /You're/ not just gonna 'casually break the rules'? -_-

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  31. Moffat also said the other day that Tennant has technically played two Doctors, the 10 and 11th, due to the meta-crisis incident, which is what makes Smith the 13th incarnation. However, since someone else has already mentioned Brain of Morbius, a Classic Who episode from Tom Baker's era (4th Doctor) I would like to make reference to the battle of minds between The Doctor and Morbius, which I just watched 2 days ago. Morbius pushed The Doctor back to William Hartnell, the 1st, and then pushed him back further, to the point it is theorized that Tom Baker, although is the 4th incarnation of The Doctor (hence why Smith is 11 still as John Hurt is The War Doctor and not The Doctor), he was in actual fact the 8th incarnation of the Timelord, and not the 4th. So if those other 4 faces were all previous ones of Timelord who calls himself The Doctor, that would make (counting Tennant twice as Moffat said) Matt Smith in fact the 17th body, and Capaldi the 18th. This could be due to Tome Baker drinking the Elixer. I would also like to point out the mentioning of The Valeyard, as I just watched The Trial of a Timelord TODAY. I made the same mistake for years, but after listening to The Masters words VERY CAREFULLY, he didn't say The Valeyard was between The Doctors 12th and 13th incarnation, but between his "12th and FINAL" incarnations. I always thoughts The Valeyard was negative energy from the regeneration, but I may have been wrong all these years about that. Another point of note too...The Valeyard never died at the end of The Trial of a Timelord, he disguised himself as The Keeper of The Matrix.

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  32. I have been thinking about this for a bit, and think everyone is too focused on "regeneration."

    It all seemed to make sense after re-watching the "Day of the Doctor", when Tom Baker said to Matt Smith, that he would be revisiting some of the old favorites, suggesting that the Doctor could choose to change his appearance without regenerating.

    This is not without merit, as when Melody Pond regenerated in "Lets Kill Hitler," she comments about how she will get younger, just to freak people out. I initially paid little attention to this as it seemed just an explanation as to why she would appear younger when she met David Tennant. Also, Moffat wrote that episode, and he plays a long game. This line could be setting up his escape clause for the regeneration limit.


    Also, I recall an interview where Moffat, said he would explain how the Doctor could/would appear in the Capaldi form, when Capaldi had already been on the show in "Fires of Pompeii."

    What if Matt Smith's Doctor does not die, but chooses to change his form, that could explain how he will be in the Capaldi form, and the older Baker form. Heck, they could run that for another 50 years, and it would provide an interesting ability for the writers to bring back favorites like Tennant, McGann, Hurt or even have the Doctor take the form of a former companion (maybe Capt. Jack) or other guest actor.

    Like I said, "Regeneration" is the red-herring. Moffat has said the regeneration thing is a rule, and everyone is in a tizzy to get around it, but I don't think he is going to regenerate.

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  33. Going on the thirteen man, but only the 12 regeneration. and yes, River did give the doctor the rest of hers so maybe he got a few extra lives out that

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  34. Are you kidding me or is Moffat's counting skills really that bad?

    If Hurt's Doctor was the Doctor from the time war that means that Hartnell was the first regeneration. This means Troughton was Regen 2; Pertwee was regen 3; Baker is Regeneration 4. That would place Davison, Colin Baker, and Mccoy as 5,6 & 7 regenerations. McGann was the 8th regeneration and Eccelson was the 9th. Tennant was the 10th regeneration and smith was the 11th.....

    Well simple math... and a little deductive logic that the "War-Doctor" was the original Doctor the one who was born, grew up and fought in the Time War before stealing the Tardis and activating the Monument. That would make Capaldi the 12th regeneration.

    The one heart doctor, wasn't a full regeneration, kinda like when he regrew his hand. Think of it like a sprain rather then a broken bone. Similar but different. OF course if you really want to call those regenerations then lets see, River donated 10 of her 12 regenerations to the Doctor to save his life in Nazi Germany. So if we are counting one heart doctor we might as well count the hand and that one that actually puts the doctor at 14 regenerations. So apparently the rule was already broken.

    So what is it Moffat? is your ability to count really that bad? Or does every PARTIAL regeneration count as a full regeneration?

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  35. To the above, you need to do more research on Dr Who. His hand was able to regenerate because he was still within the first however many hours since having regenerated, same as when the Nazi's shot River in Let's Kill Hitler.

    I don't know where you got the idea from that The Great Time War was before The Doctor left Gallifrey, because it wasn't. The Daleks didn't discover time travel until much much later after Hartnell.

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  36. "Conveniently, Peter Cushing doesn't get a credit as a doctor. Is this because it would make the number one higher and ruin everything?
    Paul McGann only made one movie but his Doctor is now part of the legend."

    Peter Cushing's Doctor doesn't count because in the two Dalek movies...
    #1 - They were introducing a DALEK TV show on [I think it was] NBC, and wanted there to be some context for the American viewers since at the time not a lot of people in America knew what Doctor Who was about.
    #2 - Peter Cushing's Doctor wasn't a true Doctor in the sense of the rest of the Doctor Who world. He wasn't a Timelord at all, but a human inventor. He will never be counted as a Doctor in the sense that we use for the counting system.

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  37. timelines are going to change...not pushing the big red button...changed everything...all the doctors timelines are xing...its like the ball under one of the 3 cups...now follow the ball as i mix them up...clever

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  38. hey here is another dumb thought...how can you count the 1st doctor...he is not a regeneration...so he should be called doctor zero...that makes matt number 11 and peter number 12...see...easy pesy...

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  39. Honestly.. some people can cause an argument in an empty house! ..simply count the faces at the top of this page then add Peter Capaldi - anyone not getting 13 needs to go back to school.

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  40. But in the imposeble astronaut the fake doctor began regenarate

    In let kill Hitler it was also hinted that he still had one new body left

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  41. Bruce Goldberg...I tend to agree with you

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